An Interview with Terry Townshend

http://blogbirder.blogspot.com/2024/02/an-interview-with-terry-townshend-wild.html?m=1

In this podcast episode, I talk with Beijing-based birder, Terry Townsend. We discuss an incredible nocturnal migration project that Terry has been heavily involved in, which has shed light on Asian bird migration over on of the most populous cities in the world. We also delve into Terry's experiences,  birdwatching and recording in various locations such as Beijing, Inner Mongolia, and the Tibetan Plateau. The episode also includes playback of various of various field  recordings made by Terry at these remarkable locations. We talk about Snow Leopards on the Tibetan Plateau, the rising interest in birding in China among the people who live there and so much more...

00:00 Introduction to Wild Bird Acoustics

00:37 Special Guest Introduction: Terry Townsend

01:57 Interview Begins: Terry's Background and Birding Journey

04:00 Birding in China: A Growing Interest

05:13 Terry's Conservation Efforts in China

07:10 The Valley of the Cats Project: A Sustainable Eco Initiative

15:02 The Impact of the Valley of the Cats Project on Local Communities

20:47 The Nocturnal Migration Project in Beijing

32:05 The Future of Bird Conservation in China

36:42 Bird species recorded in the Nocturnal Migration Project

38:23 Discussion on Bird Calls and Frequencies

39:06 Discussing recorded audio over Beijing

40:34 Some insights into Asian nocturnal flight calls

41:04 Nocturnal Bird Migration over Beijing

41:41 Random Asian Bird Species by Sound

53:49 Diurnal Recordings from China/Mongolia and discussion

01:12:22 The Beauty of Bird Sounds in undisturbed habitat

01:14:04 Conclusion: Thoughts on the future of Bird Sound Recording

Transcript

  You're all very welcome to wild bird acoustics. I'm your host, Alan Dalton, and I'll be taking you on a journey into sound. 

 

 Welcome everybody to wild bird acoustics once again and we have a very special episode for you today This marks the first time I will be interviewing somebody on the podcast  today I'm going to be talking to a very special guest all the way from Beijing in China, Mr.

Terry Townsend. Now Terry is a very busy man, but I was  very happy when he agreed to come on and talk to us here at Wild Bird Acoustics.  He has been conducting a very interesting nocturnal migration study in the city of Beijing. I just thought this would be of great interest to our listeners. 

 Now before I start, I just want to say that ,  if you want to view sonograms that are discussed in the section where we discuss the NOC MIG calls over Beijing, you can simply click on a link that I will put in the episode description and that will take you to my  blog  with Terry's kind permission, I put together a post with the recordings from that section and also the sonograms, ,  which I think some of you will be quite interested in.

.  So if you want to view that,  so if you want to view that after you listen to the podcast, just click on the link in the show description and it will take you there and you can view the sonograms. 



So without further ado, I will get straight into the interview. This is an interview with Terry Townsend on Wild Bird Acoustics. 

  

So welcome everybody and we're delighted to have a very special guest all the way from Beijing in China. You're very welcome Mr. Terry Townsend. Thank you Alan and it's a honor to to join you. I've  been following a lot of your activities over many years from when I lived in Denmark actually and you're in Sweden so I know quite a lot about your sketches and  of course more recently what you've been doing with audio recording so it's great to join you. 

Thanks, Terry.  We'll start at the beginning, I suppose. I believe you're from the UK originally, is that right?  Yes, from Norfolk, born and bred, uh, East Coast. So, yeah, I spent my early years growing up, um, in Norfolk before I went to university. Um, I lived away, obviously, for many years as well in London, uh, then Denmark for three years before I came to China in 2010. 

Okay,  is that where you were first interested in boarding as a young lad in Norfolk, or?  Yeah, it's hard not to be, yeah., interested in birding when you grow up on the Norfolk coast. Um, but having said that, , I came from a very small village and, um, you know, I don't think I met another bird watcher, uh, until I was a teenager

Okay. So, uh,  yeah, there weren't many of us around, , at that time. But, , of course, you know, when you start to get further afield,  you soon meet other birders in Norfolk, and certainly as I was.  In my teenage years  and, uh, into my twenties, you know, I met lots and lots of birders around the Norfolk coast.

So it was, it was a great place to grow up and sort of be immersed and connected with nature right from an early age. Now I remember actually you, I thought at the time maybe you were living in Southern Sweden because I was following your blog at the time and I was quite, I was just getting into dragonflies and damselflies and at the time the blog was fantastic for me.

 How long were you in Denmark?  Yeah, I was in Copenhagen for  just over three years, um, so I did make some forays into southern Sweden over the bridge into Skåne, to Falsterbor and, places like that. So, um, and I had a good friend who lived just up the coast, Phil Bensted, who's another Brit,  who lived up there.

So, um, so yeah, I used to make occasional trips into Sweden, but most of my birding at that time was focused around that.  The, the area  immediately around Copenhagen. Yeah, it's a good area for birds. And when did you first move to Beijing, Terry?  Um, August 2010. Okay. So, yeah, so over 13, it'll be 14 years this, this August.

Yeah, which is hard to believe. Mm, time flies.  Almost Chinese now. It seems like there's been a huge explosion in interest in birding in China over the last few years.  Yeah, definitely. I mean, um, when I first arrived, , you're more likely to find a first for Beijing than you were to see another birder.

, it was that kind of, , ratio, you know, you, you go, but it would be really rare to see another birder. , there was nothing, no, no bird use at all. You know, if you wanted to find out whether.  That Chinese Pendoline tip that bred in 2005 at this site, you know, was still breeding there.

You'd have to, literally have to go there yourself and, and look, you know, there was no bird news at all. So, um, yeah, and it's gone from that to now. I mean, today it's, um, it's exploding. , now there are thousands of bird watchers just in Beijing alone. , and it's growing across the country.

Yeah, really fast. Um, and of course.  As is typical of East Asia, you know, photography is, is growing at an even faster rate. It's huge there.  Yeah, so any park you go into now in Beijing, , you'll see, , dozens of photographers. Um, yeah, and birders as well. Okay, that's great.  So, we'll get on to your nocturnal project shortly, um, can you tell us about You seem to be very, very busy.

I know you've been involved in things like the Beijing swift project, the cuckoos, uh, even for conservation for things like  bears, poachers, and Jim Kowski's bunting. And you seem to be a very, very busy man,  but it's, it's fantastic. All the conservation work you're doing. And it seems like you've raised a lot of interest there. 

So kudos for that. Well, I'm very fortunate, , to, to be involved in and to have the opportunity to be involved in, in lots of projects here. , and I think this, this sort of growing awareness on conservation in China has, has meant that it's sort of like riding a wave in a way, you know, like Chinese conservationists say it's, , a golden era , for conservation in China.

So that, you know, there's strong government support, there's growing awareness, And there's lots and lots of conservation projects springing up, , and a lot more awareness , about many of the birds that they have here. , not just giant panda,  , that they care about some of the smaller birds now that are in trouble , and other animals.

So , it's been a real privilege to be part of that sort of growing awareness and, , explosion of interest. And  yeah, just been very, very fortunate to work with some really amazing people and some great.  NGOs here now springing up across the country, um, like Shanshui Conservation Center, who I work very closely with, particularly on the Tibetan Plateau,  uh, with communities there.

Um, it's just been the privilege of my life to work there, you know, in that  unbelievable place, ,  incredible wilderness where you still have, you know, communities, , living very  traditional lifestyles,  semi nomadic herders and living alongside some of the  most dangerous predators, you know, you can have like brown bears and,  they're losing livestock , to wolves and snow leopards and, and common leopards , and all sorts.

So it's, yeah, it's, it's just an incredible place to, to visit. Yeah. That brings us onto the Valley of the Cats project. And it's kind of a sustainable eco project where the locals benefit , from the tourism.  Yeah, so essentially, , it started with a community of 22 families  and their traditional Tibetan ethnicity, um, yak herders, and they're, you know, by material standards, they're quite poor. 

Um, and, , this NGO Shanshui Conservation Center, which is based out of Peking University, , has been working with them, , on community based conservation for some time. And so , what they do is they involve the local people in the conservation work. , for example, they have, each family has responsibility to set up and monitor infrared cameras, um, in their area.

And, , of course they know the area better than anyone. They know where the animals are, they know where the tracks are that the animals use. And so, they're the best people to do that job. And, , so they set up , , and monitor these camera traps. They send the data back to Peking University, to , the scientists there for analysis.

And then the scientists will come and brief the, the families on the results of that, their work. So what they're learning about, for example, you know, the ranges, the territories of snow leopard ecology of a lot of these animals that are quite poorly studied. , they're able, , it's like a whole circle, a feedback loop. 

where they participate, they contribute the data, and then the scientists will come and brief them. And of course, it's an efficient way of doing it because, um, saves the scientists having to travel, you know, three, four times a year to set up and monitor these camera traps and, , and they pay something, you know, a small amount to the local community to do that.

And then,  taking it to the next step. I mean, my first visit there. The very first day that I was in this valley, I was extremely  fortunate to see two snow leopards. Yeah. , it was just a crazy  day. And I remember it so vividly because the week before, I was in Qinghai on the Tibetan Plateau for the first time.

And the day before I left Beijing,  I did an interview with a journalist and they asked me, What, what mammal? Do I most want to see in China?  And, and I said, well, actually there's two. I said, I really want to see  Snow Leopard, of course. It's the one that everyone wants to see.  I said, the other one I really want to see is Palace's Cat.

And  the next day I flew to Qinghai. It was my birthday.  And we went for a walk in this valley.  And we bumped into,   a pair of Palace's Cat kittens. And, Well, just playing  on the hillside right next to us. And it was like, oh my god, this is amazing.  It's just one of those crazy experiences.

And fortunately they hung around,  I was able to get some video. And the mother came back with a piker. Yeah, and there was a lot of action. It was just amazing. And as we were walking out of that valley, that's when I got the phone call inviting me to Ang Sai, which is the the village where the Valley of the Cats project is.

 The next weekend I was there,  and the first day it was like a sort of, um, they call it a nature watch competition. So they invite teams of people from all over the country, generally students, young people,  and to come and spend three days in a location.   They're asked to go out and photograph As much as possible.

So mammals, birds, plants, anything. And the idea is this, it's like a bio blitz. Yeah.  Get a snapshot of the biodiversity in these places. Because they're very poorly studied, , these areas are vast. I think Sanjayan National Park, which is the, the national park on the Tibetan Plateau, is comparable to the size of England.

Really? Um,  so, these are, these are big places.  Yeah, and the first day I was there, I was invited to join one of the groups,  two students from Peking University, and most of the other teams had gone deeper into the valley. And, my, my partners, these two students, because they were students, they got up late, we were the last to leave camp, and so we thought, okay, we'll go the other direction,  than everybody else.

And we found this little side valley, we walked in,  we met a Tibetan family. They,  invited us in for tea, as they always do, they're very hospitable. And I was looking at my watch, it was like 11 o'clock, and I was thinking we're not going to see much today.  And they asked us why we were there, so we said, oh, we're here for part of this nature watch competition.

And they said, oh, we sometimes get snow leopards behind our house.  And we were like, what?  Really? And we had to sort of check the translations to make sure that they actually meant snow leopard.  Rather than something else, um, and sure enough, yeah, you know, they were talking about Shui Bao, which is, um, Snow Leopard. 

So they said, okay, when we finished your tea, we'll take you up out the back and we'll have a look. , we went up, um, The, the son, the young son in the house took us up and onto this ridge and we were scanning this  unbelievable  area of mountains and  rocks and hills and it was just stunning place.

There were Llamagayas  flying around,  Himalayan griffins, golden eagle, there was , blue sheep, , there were lots of rose finches and red starts all around, , but no sign of any big cats and then  just as we're about to leave,   I saw a rock that I'd probably looked at.  a hundred times, , suddenly looked a little bit different.

I thought, hang on, there's a little lump on the rock. I'm sure there wasn't before.  So I sort of looked through the binoculars and it was like, oh my god, there's a snow leopard head looking straight back at us. So we got the telescope on it and, uh, and it was just, and there it was, , and we were  looking right at us and we, we watched it for about 45 minutes before we realised there were two.

Um, so there was a second one.  sitting just underneath it didn't move and it was invisible. You know, their camouflage is just incredible. In the wild. Yeah. And that's really how it all started. So, , went back to base and, uh, the local government leader was coming , it was the first night of this festival and, um, showed him the pictures and the video and said, , look, people pay a lot of money to go and try and see snow leopard in Ladakh.

, maybe you could do something here, , to benefit the local community. And, ,  and he said, Oh, this sounds interesting. , can you write a paper how it might work? So  I did a sort of one page concept note. Um,  and  submitted it and thought I'll probably never hear anything again. And then a few weeks later, I got a note from the NGO saying the local government is really interested.

You know, can you sort of flesh it out how this project might work?  And so with the, with Shanshui, we. We, , put together a, a more detailed document, , and we were very,  ,  clear at the beginning that we wanted the community to benefit from this, you know, not some terrorist company that would take all the profits, but we wanted the revenue to stay in the community.

And we talked with the community leaders and they were really interested. And actually, you know, the few weeks later, there I was on a plane, , getting ready to train. These, um, local families on how to be guides, you know, how to look, how to take people around looking for wildlife ,  And, yeah, it's just been a incredible experience, you know, and just at the end of last year, we've passed 4 million yuan revenue now for that community, , which is, you know, nearly, nearly half a million pounds. 

And, , it's all, 100 percent of that money stayed in the community. 

How has it impacted, , local young people? I mean, it must give them a  really bright future . Are they becoming more interested in just conservation in general and becoming more let's say, adept at  identifying birds and other species in the area? 

Yeah, I think it has had quite a big impact. So obviously, you know, they take it for granted, right? They've lived there for generations and it's like, Oh yeah, of course we've got snappers, of course we've got bears, of course we've got  , and so when, when they realized that actually what they have is, is very special, you know, globally, their biodiversity is, is very, very special.

I think that brought a sense of pride into the community and, and this project, , by, ,  giving people the opportunity to learn new skills, you know, like guiding   Has encouraged some of the young people to stay in the communities, given them a purpose and a reason to stay. There's a lot of pressure on young people, you know, to go to the city.

Yeah, I was going to ask you about that, because formerly they must have all kind of, not fled the area, but it must have been very difficult, say, to find employment . So that's probably given them a real outlet to stay in their local community.  Yeah, two young guys actually said that, you know, to me.

It was a real, really, um  , rewarding moment, you know, when they said, look, you know, this project, we were going to go to the city, but because of this project, we've stayed and we really wanted to stay, you know, they said we wanted a reason to stay because , we love this way of life. We want to protect this way of life and our culture and our language, um, and all of that.

So he said, you know, this, this has  meant , that we now have enough money that we don't feel the pressure to go to the city.  I remember as a kid, I used to go to Dublin zoo. And the one animal that really, you know, I used to spend the most time, it was always the snow leopards. They didn't do much. They just kind of loafed around the cage, you know, and just kind of chilled out.

But they were so beautiful, , and it's just one of those mythical animals that, ,  very little footage of them up until a few years ago.  Some of the footage that comes out of the Valley of the Cats is quite amazing. How are the animals? They don't seem to be particularly shy as such.  No, well that, that was actually one of the big things that, that struck me when I first saw these two snow leopards, , was, I, I always thought if I'm ever lucky enough to see a snow leopard, it will see me first and it will run over the ridge and I'll just see a tail, you know, disappear. 

That's, that's how I imagined, you know, seeing a snow leopard would, would be, , but , the two that we saw, you know, were only a few hundred meters away and they were very relaxed. Yeah. They knew we were there and they were just, you know, half asleep, ,  and that immediately struck me because I thought if, if these communities here are, , in conflict with these animals, , if they're persecuting them, there's no way they would have tolerated our presence.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, that close. So I think that, that spoke volumes about the relationship between this community , and the predators, , and their Buddhist, , religion ,  is  very, very refreshing their attitudes they have to nature. So, one, just to give you an example you know, they, they, they respect every life.

So the first time I when I stayed with a family there, you know, they cook for me.  And we have yak stew, um, we have yak stew for breakfast, lunch and dinner. And, um, I was cooking the  So I was going to wash the dishes, right? I said, oh, you know, let me wash the dishes after you cook. And, uh, so they gave me this bowl of hot water, , that they heated on the stove.

So I, I was out, outside. , and I poured some hot water into, into the bowls and just rinsed them out and then I threw the hot water down. And they're like, no, no, no, no, don't throw the hot water down onto the ground. You will hurt the spiders and the ants. Yeah. You know, they said, they said, spray it like this in a, in a semicircle over your head so it goes into small droplets.

I was like, wow,  this,  this place is special. Yeah, very, very nature tolerant.  Really, they, they have such a, a healthy respect. Um, for, for nature and all living creatures. And it's, it's wonderful to see that it really sort of, you know, something that cares about wildlife to meet people like that. It's just, yeah, really.

I had a similar experience when I was traveling around Thailand years ago. I came across several kind of Buddhist communities and it struck me as well. The same kind of just the,  just the general appreciation and kind of, you know, for nature and everything around them. I thought it was very refreshing. 

Yeah, so I think we can learn a lot. Absolutely. From these people. Yeah.  Now, I'll, I'll try and stay on topic. Um, just before you have a website, Terry, if you want to plug that it's  where, where people can just keep an eye on things.  Yeah, of course. Yeah. I mean, um, yeah, it's now called wildbeijing. org. Um, it used to be birdingbeijing.

com, which still, still works. I think it automatically, it should automatically take you to wild Beijing now. Cause, um, it's sort of broadened out. It started off really as a. As a diary for me, just to keep record of what I've seen in Beijing and since then it's grown, um, a lot and expanded  to cover not just birds, but, um, other wildlife in Beijing,  um, and, and further afield in China.

Yeah. So, so yeah, I try and keep that, um, as up to date as possible, um, with, with all the projects that I'm involved with,  um, and to help celebrate, you know, the, the wildlife that we have here in the, in one of the biggest capital cities in the world. Yep. We'll move on to that now actually your nocturnal migration project in Beijing now, I understand this is It's an urban location and your quarter is placed on a high rise banking building, is that right in the center, by the way? 

That's right, yeah, it's, um, it's on the roof of the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank, which is, um, one of the big multilateral development banks, um, which, um, Lends lots of money for big infrastructure projects in Asia. So their headquarters are in central Beijing It's a 15 story high building  And it's  right next to one of the big green spaces in in Beijing the Olympic Forest Park  and It's ideal for many reasons one the height I think is good because you get away from  all the cicadas and the you know that yeah the  noise as well.

Um, there's no aircraft, uh, over the center of Beijing. Um, so it, it doesn't, uh, suffer from, from aircraft noise and it's not near any major roads. So for, for a central city location, it's remarkably quiet. Okay. I, I know like people will think of Beijing, you know, it's one of the biggest cities in the world.

And it, one of the things I'm just trying to get across to people who may be living in urban areas, you can record at night. surprisingly quiet in a lot of areas at night, you know, once humans go to bed and it's quite incredible what's going over sometimes in these areas.  Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely right and I think, you know, that's one of the the drivers for this project really was to to try to get an insight into this incredible miracle that happens over our heads as we sleep at night, you know, and and even in one of the world's biggest cities.

Yeah. I think you have to look north of Beijing really for for the reason there's so many birds flying over Beijing. Because, I mean, you have, I think you have the Gobi Desert to the north,  and then you have the coast on the other side, so it probably acts as a kind of a funnel.  Yeah, yeah, absolutely right.

So, I mean, obviously, further north we have Siberia, right, you know, which is vast, um, and not many people live there. So,  all the forests, and then the tundra further north, and the steppe grasslands, sort of at the southern end of that, um, you know, there's millions and millions of birds. Yep, a huge reservoir of breeding species. 

It. Absolutely. Yeah. And as you said, you know, the Goby is, is sort of northwest of Beijing and stretches quite a long way west. And you know, we know that desert  is a barrier for birds. You know, birds don't, some birds at least don't feel comfortable crossing deserts. And as you, as you also mentioned, you know, we have the coast, uh, the Bohi Bay not far to the east.

And so there is, we believe a funneling effect sort of as these birds empty out of Siberia, they. Come through Northeast China, you know, and probably across a broad front, you know, which includes Beijing  So yeah, we're very lucky. You know, we get a lot of migration  Coming through here. It must have been very challenging at first was it just to identify a lot of these calls I mean in Europe you have really at this stage you have a pretty good library of kind of reference material to kind of go by But I imagine when you started, it must have been completely confusing, was it? 

Yes, and I have to say a big thank you to you guys and everyone else in that, , in the WhatsApp, uh, No group. For helping me out quite a lot. Yeah. With various mystery calls.  Yeah, I mean, I, I sort of thought I had a reasonable handle on, Uh, bird calls, you know, from this region, at least in Beijing, but of course, when you're actually listening to them out of context, you know, at night, you have no habitat reference or, you know, things, even things that you know, sometimes it takes a while for the penny to drop, you know, and, um, so at the beginning it was pretty, uh, overwhelming and, um,  you know, of course, most birds, fortunately.

Use the same calls  as they use it during the day  but of course there are a number that don't and , we still have a lot of mysteries to work out. Yeah, I can imagine  Yeah, but it's you know, and all the processing for our Project has been done manually and we we're hoping we are working actually with Cornell  to  train their  AI model  Yeah. 

So  we're hoping that in the future we can at least, you know, get some of the analysis done  automatically. I think moving forward, it's going to be a big boom. I think it's going to be very effective now, especially with the advent of AI.  You know, I think things will become easier once you, once you feed these, these, all of these calls into the models,  you know. 

I agree. And I think it opens up  huge potential. I mean, you know, we, we sort of have visions of. Schools in Beijing having recorders on the roof. And then, you know, in the morning somebody can come in, they can just put the file through the AI and they'll get a list, you know, of what birds flew over their campus.

Yeah. I I don't think that's too far away, to be honest.  No, I, I, I agree. And I think once we do have this ai, I mean, it, it just, I, I think the potential is just  vast. Yeah. It's astronomical, really. Uh, just quickly both for data collection and public engagement, you know? Yeah. So. Just quickly, what recording device are you using? 

So we use a wildlife acoustics. Yeah. Um, song me to mini, which, um, is brilliant. Love it. You know, it's, um,  very portable, uh, with the rechargeable batteries. You know, it can last a whole season and you know, doing, uh, you know, with a big enough memory card  and of course in all weather, you know, it's, it's weatherproof too.

So, um,  love it. Yeah. I, uh, I mean, of course the quality is not as good as a,  as a sort of, you know, uh, a mixed pre and, uh, power,  but, um, you know, it's good enough. Absolutely. Yeah. I think it's offset by just, like you said, the weatherproof and the ease of use and the battery life. It really does offset that kind of stuff.

That kind of, you know, downside, if you like, are used here in Sweden, and they're fantastic.  Yeah. So, yeah.  But a project, how this started, um, just, um, because it's a funny, funny story. Because I was looking, I was thinking about doing a NOC MIG project in Beijing, and, and the, I mean, the rationale for doing it really is, is to help people.

raise awareness, right? That sort of from a conservation perspective, what we wanted to do was raise awareness about the volume  of migration that happens over Beijing.  And, um, and we also wanted to ground it in,  in, um,  good science. So that's why we bought in Peking University. So Peking University, you're a scientific partner for this.

And then we were looking for a location and, um, and it just so happened that. I got an email from a guy called Danny Alexander,  um, who is the vice president of the Asia Infrastructure Investment Bank.  And he used to be a UK minister, actually. He was a Lib Dem  MP and he was a minister in the UK Treasury during the Conservative Lib Dem coalition in the UK.

And then after he,  uh,  left as an MP, I think he lost his seat at the Following election, he, he got this post as vice president of the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank.  And he sent, he sent me an email through the website and said, Oh, you know, I'm a birder. And I'd love to have a chat about birds in Beijing.

So we met up for a coffee at the bank. And while we're having a coffee, just talking about birds, you know, I said, Oh, do you think we could use your roof?  Because the building looked  perfect. You know, the location, the height of it. And, uh, any, any, so we sort of had a chat about this potential to do a NOCMIG project.

He's like, wow, he said, uh,  you know, this sounds really cool, really interesting, you know, leave it with me. I'll speak to  management team, you know, the building management and so on. And a few days later he came back and said, yeah, we can do it. Um, so brilliant. Yeah. So we, so we got AIB, the Asia Infrastructure Investment Bank as a partner. 

Um, and then they were keen to bring in the Beijing municipal government and we were as well, of course, because, um,  You know, the, the great thing about  China is that the government controls everything. Yeah. The great thing in terms of, in terms of, um, conservation is if you can influence the government,  you're there, you know, and like in Beijing, for example, 71 percent of Beijing's land is managed by the Forest and Parks Bureau.

Yeah, directly under government. Directly under government. And, um, at the moment, you know, the The parks are managed in a very, um,  uh, should we say biodiversity unfriendly way, you know, a leaf drops, they pick it up, somebody's there to sweep it up, you know, and, um, they trim the grass really short. They don't allow any undergrowth  and it's all done, you know, sort of neat and tidy is the key thing.

So what we wanted to do was try to demonstrate how Beijing has this incredible migration, incredible bird migration, and how it actually also has a responsibility. You know, as a city on this migratory route to help facilitate safe passage of migratory birds. And so what we're trying to do with this project, we thought, great, bring them in,  show them this incredible diversity of birds that we have, and encourage them to integrate into their management policy the needs of migratory birds.

Um, and so,  and try to manage these parks, you know, in not such a neat and tidy way, but, but try and have some areas that. are suitable for migratory birds. And they've been really, really receptive to this. So, um, you know, obviously for them it's a great story, a positive story about the environment in Beijing, about having all these birds.

So it's good for, good for Beijing's image. And, uh, and they've been, been really positive about implementing changes to the way they manage, um, the parks to, to, to benefit migratory birds. So,  it's been a really, really cool project from that perspective, you know, we've had Peking University, we've had the bank and the Beijing government as partners, you know, and, and, uh, I think it's, um, it's had an impact and, and we've had a lot of interest from other, um,  academic institutions and other borders across the country.

So now there are quite a lot of people starting to, to do not make, um, across China, which is brilliant. I suppose maybe one of the. One of the pluses of the, the political system in China is that they're not just there in term for four years, they're there kind of, you know,  so they really can't, you know, they have , how would you say, a concern about the future? 

Yeah,, I mean, obviously, I think it was, , Churchill who said there's no perfect way to run a country. ,  democracy is better than all the others or something. I can't remember the exact quote. But there are pros and cons, obviously, with both and, um.  The system that China has, obviously there are some negatives to how they're running the country, but  if, if their, , policies in the right direction, like for, for example, at the moment for wildlife conservation, it definitely is, it can really help, you know, because if, if the president says something about protecting nature,  yeah, it's longterm, everyone suddenly adjusts their, , plans and,  , action plans, strategies and everything to align , with what he said.

So it, you know, we're lucky at the moment that, , President Xi seems to be, , very pro  conserving the environment , and biodiversity. , there has been, that's why, , this, it's like  the Chinese conservationists say, it's like riding a wave at the moment. Yeah.  Yeah, so we're in a good position.

Yeah. Well, hopefully, , if they look after the environment, the environment looks after you, so it's probably something they need to be conscious of as well.  Absolutely. Yeah. , they're pretty vulnerable to climate change. Yeah. , they're going to have temperature rises greater than the world average.

Um, sea level rise also is likely to be higher than the global average. , they're vulnerable to climate change there.  And I've also seen. , big impacts like, , through desertification and sandstorms and things like that. So they, you know,  the leadership, I think, genuinely are aware realizes, , that we can't have a healthy economy without a healthy environment.

Yep. That's great. Now, getting back to the migration project, you began recording in spring, I would imagine, or was it autumn?  No, we began in autumn, actually. Yeah, autumn 2021 was the first season. And , have you seen a big difference? Obviously, there's going to be a big difference in species between, say, spring and autumn.

When do you get the most birds?  Yeah, , we get the most birds by far in autumn. Um, and the biggest, , the busiest time is actually the last week of September. Okay. That's quite early.  Yeah, that's when we get the highest volume. ,  And spring is notably quieter. I mean, just to give you, , rough figures. I think first autumn  2021, we had 34, 000 calls, , between, I think, late August and early November.

In spring 22, we only had 4, 400 calls. Oh, that's a huge difference.  ,  A little bit more than 10%, but, , significantly lower. Yeah. And then the following autumn, remarkably  We had 34, 460, it was just within a few hundred, yeah, the number  from the previous autumn.  So yeah, quite consistent.  Yeah, , but then spring 23 was a bit better, we had 11,  300 calls. 

,  So , it was a bit, a bit higher. And there,  we had a couple of big spikes that spring. Like we had a big movement of Skylarks in late March, one night. And then in, towards the end of May, we had another. Big movement of common rose finches. Yeah, I think we had 2, 000 common rose finches in in a night I think what can happen charity is if you get the right weather conditions  Just randomly at a certain time of the year if it actually coincides with a species peak migration You'll see  a big species spike.

Yeah, I'm sure you're right. Yeah, so I've noticed that in Sweden  Yeah, yeah, I mean that makes perfect sense. You know, it's , and it's sometimes with visual, you know, observations, you see that, right? So if you're doing this week, sometimes you'll see a big push of a certain species if the conditions are right at that time.

And  yeah, it's, it's, it's just, it's fascinating. I mean, it's just, we're just learning so much about, , about these birds and, , the migration. Yeah, I think it just kind of, you need to actually have several years of data really before you get a bigger picture, I think. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so we've done five seasons now, , and this spring we're planning to continue, , so this spring will be our sixth season and  we'll start probably in mid March and go through to mid June.

Yeah. What species are, if you make up the bulk, what are you seeing the most of, generally speaking?  By far, the most common is olive bat pipet. Okay. In the autumn.  Yeah. Yeah. Primarily in the autumn. We get quite a few in the spring as well. , but yeah, in autumn we, , so far we've had 26, 000. Wow.

 That's definitely the most common. And then behind that Night Heron is the Black Crown Night Heron. Okay. , it is hard to, , separate out local breeders, you know, from migrants. .  Are a breeding species in Beijing. , I'm sure a portion of those are, , breeders. And then the next one is common rosefinch. 

, nearly 8, 000 common rosefinches we've had in total. And then skyline after that.  , we have some recordings here that you kindly sent us and we can run through some of those actually.  , so yeah, maybe we should start with olive back pippet actually, since we've just mentioned it.  So I'll play a recording now that you've sent of olive back pippet. 

Okay. 

So I get a lot of tree pippet here in Sweden and  I find with olive back pippet you can hear that kind of descending  kind of tone at the back of the call and I have another question actually for you. Do you find they just call singly at night?  The olive back pippets?  Yeah, just a single call in general because quite often tree pippet will give multiple calls. 

Yeah, olive back pippet often gives multiple calls. It does as well. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I, and it's . ,  supposed to be very similar to Tree Pippin, but I think , that, exactly as you said, that noticeable, , when you're listening, you, that noticeable downward, , trend towards the end of the call , is typical.

The other thing I noticed, I think I've had four now in Sweden, , all of them came last year. And the other thing was that they're actually a little bit lower at night than they are during the day. So typically during the day they're over eight kilohertz, but generally around 7 at night, which I thought was interesting. 

Yes, , I did read somewhere that, , if it's that normally all of that Pippet is, is over eight, but certainly a lot of mine are under eight  kilohertz. Uh, so yeah, it's, , it's not uncommon at all for them to be below eight. So night heron also, you said was , very common. So we'll play a night heron next. 

And you get a lot of those birds as well.  Yeah. I mean, and again, they call multiple times. , what I find , is night herons, , it's very hard to know numbers as you know, , with a , number of birds involved, but you can, sometimes you can tell, , there's one bird flying around in circles right over, around the recorder.

, so there are birds breeding in, in the Olympic forest park, which is right next to the recording location. So it's. Yeah, I think we get a lot of , those birds flying around. We'll move on now to something that maybe a lot of European knockmakers would dream of, and that's Siberian Ruby Throat. 

That sounds a little bit like Black Red Star to me. Does it? Yeah, it does a little bit.  , I did have a look at the sonogram when you sent it on. It's actually, it's fairly distinctive, actually, the sonogram. So I think you just need to be very, you know Vigilant. I, I don't know. I think a lot of these calls could be overlooked in Europe fairly easily.

So possibly with the advent of AOE in the future, a lot more might be picked up in Europe. I think it'd be quite easy to overlook a lot of these species in Europe. Yes.  Yeah. Yeah. Obviously they're , very rare. Especially if they're hidden amongst a similar species, ,  like tree, if an olive bat pippet was with tree pippet, I imagine when, when have your olive bat pippets been in Sweden, by the way, have they generally been much lower than the tree pippet passage, I presume? 

I think the earliest was the 40th of September, which was actually very early, but generally speaking, early October. Yeah, okay. And last year seemed to be particularly good for the species. I got none this year, but there was quite a lot of them around Europe. , I was talking to Stan Rose, I think there was 50 birds recorded in France last year. 

, there was a lot of knockmiggers in France and there was a lot of birds picked up, but they were , very scarce this year. So again, possibly weather  or breeding success or some sort of a factor. It's difficult to know exactly what's going on. Yeah, they peak in sort of late September  but we do get them right from late August  so we get them from coming through  from August right through to November  so yeah they come through quite late sometimes. 

So next up Eyebrow Trush and again this is a species I think it'd be very very difficult to pick up in the big night of Red Wing.  But again, the sonogram is slightly different,  if you get a big night of Red Wing, it's, it's so overwhelming. Try and pick one of these out, but it's, it's interesting to hear this call. 

I'll play it out now. 

It does sound different to Red Wing, doesn't it? Yeah. It's somewhere between Red Wing and Blackbird. Yes. Yeah.  Yeah, I agree. , we get quite a few of these coming through from  late August, , through September.  I'm pretty confident that  they're eyebrowed. And so it's, we have recorded some, , very early morning, , that are definitely eyebrowed that match this sonogram.

So we're pretty confident that these are eyebrow thrush.

You've sent me another one actually of eyebrow thrush. I'll just play it out now.  Quite a few calls in this one 

Is that some sort of a high rise insect there as well  Oh,  some sort of cricket or, yeah, occasionally we get a cricket or a akata that comes, sits on the roof near the record.  , how many floors up? It's 15 floors up.  Yeah.  . Okay. Yeah, it can be annoying when you get one, you know, it's obviously sitting right next to the record, but it doesn't happen too often, thankfully.

But, um, yeah, these calls, they're very heavily modulated, aren't they? These, um, yeah, they're, yeah. I, I, I think more so , than Red Wing. And they seem to be a little bit more level as well. Mm hmm. They don't quite drop off as much. , again, I think you'll have to be very, very observant. But, , I think the ear test is, , it sounds somewhere between red wing and black bird.

So, maybe it's something to watch out for. Yeah. Here in Europe. Yeah, good luck. Common roe. Ha, ha, ha. Common rose finch is a species now that occurs in Europe. , I've only ever had one and it was actually a bird in spring. Okay. 

That's interesting. I actually got a bird in spring and it was actually giving songs as it went over. Oh, nice. In the middle of the night.   Yeah. I've had a couple doing that, but it's pretty rare given how many we've had coming through. , you know, it's pretty common. It's a very common bird here, obviously, but the knock mig  It's relative Abundance on knock mig. It sort of belies  the visual observations because  We know it's pretty common like when you if you're doing vis mig you often hear them going over  But you rarely see them, and you very rarely see them on the ground,  or in the in trees.

  It's weird. Yeah, we we don't generally see them very often, but  ? Is that quite common that you're getting species in big numbers at night that are actually very very scarce during the day?  Well, I think one of the biggest differences, actually, or one of the biggest surprises was the number of  flycatchers that we're getting coming through, for example, in late July  and August.

 If you look at observational records, , there are very few records in late July. Um, and I think it's partly because  It's really hot in Beijing in late July, , and not many people go out birding. And, , the canopies are obviously still very vegetated, , so it's probably hard to see flycatchers in a lot of places.

, but we get a big movement of flycatchers. We haven't yet worked out the individual species, um,  but the spectrograms, you know, are  similar to the,  the European flycatchers, so we're pretty confident that the flycatchers, but, , we have a lot to choose from here. , we have dark sided, we have Asian brown, we have gray streaked, we have taiga, we have yellow rump, we have green backed, milky macky sometimes, slatey backed, uh, you know, blue and white.

We have a lot of flycatchers, so trying to work with that is, it's an absolute nightmare group. Yes, yes. I mean, we only have about three or four in Europe and they're a nightmare as is, you know, pied flies and collared fly. I don't think they're even identifiable. I'm not sure from each other. But I mean, just separating spotted fly from pied fly is reasonably difficult here.

Yeah. It's very time consuming. So I can only imagine what you're going through in Asia. Yeah. I mean, I think the one that we should be able to work out, I mean, it is Taiga, right? Because it's an abundant migrant and it's later than most of the other flycatchers.  Um, so it ought to be doable, but it's been really hard and I, I wonder if they just don't call very much. , , it's not like we've got a mystery call where we get a peak, , that matches , the visual records of take a fly. We just, there's nothing really that remotely matches it in terms of that timeline and abundance.  If it's any consolation, I'm not aware of a single red breasted flycatcher call.

Okay. Okay. Okay. In Europe at night. So maybe they can stay cold very much. Possibly, yeah.  We'll, , play Richard's Pippet next. It's quite a nice recording, I think. 

Um, I think you mentioned there might be Blythe's Pippet here, too.  Yes, at the end of that, um, recording, there's, you'll notice there are two sort of fainter calls that are significantly higher pitched.  Um, and, uh, I'm pretty sure they're Blythe's. Might be 

. Richard's Pippet is fairly numerous, is it? Yeah, , it's a very common migrant through Beijing. , a few pairs breed actually, , but it's , mostly breeds further north. , it's pretty common migrant. Yeah.  Okay, we'll go to, what have we got? Actually, a species I'm quite interested in, Siberian Acentor.

I actually missed the big influx here. I started recording the next year, but I would have loved dearly to be recording at night in Landsorten, Sweden. When this species erupted  into Europe,  I think it's quite distinctive quite high you play it now 

It sounds like don't look but just higher I may be a bit more rushed to me. Yeah  So yeah, it's a species. I've been keeping especially later records here of Dunlop. I watched them pretty carefully, but no joy It is definitely  But they're quite regular as well in, , in Beijing. Yeah, I mean, it's a common winter visitor here to  scrubby areas.

, I've had quite a lot on Nok Mig. , it's quite a late migrant. So we, it's  generally end of October. , into November that we get them.   The next one is a wider species and it's wood sandpiper. Is this a rarity for you or? No,  no, it's a very common migrant.  Yeah. Okay. I'll play it now.

Yeah. 

Very familiar. I think the most European borders. Yeah. I love that call. It's , yeah, it's a nice call. I like it too.  How are waiters in general? Do you get more in spring or autumn or waiters? , Yeah.  I'd say we'd get more in autumn,  late summer, basically. So late, , July, August is, is up.

Yeah. Return migration. , there are quite a few species that have not yet been recorded in Beijing. , that, that seemed to be very tied to the coast. So things like not,  you know, we've, there's never been recorded in Beijing ever. , , there are a few species like that, that we just haven't got.

But then,  and some are pretty rare, you know, all curlews are pretty uncommon. Uh, even Eurasian curlew, um, Far Eastern curlew, pretty uncommon.  Uh, little curlew also, it's pretty rare.  Okay.  So, next up is Pallas's Bunting, and I was very surprised by this call actually. It seems , very distinctive.  I'll play it quickly.

So this is Palace Bunting. 

Sounds a little bit like Richard's Pippet, actually.  Yeah, and , this, ,  is a Lydie  race of Palace's Bunting. So there are several races of Palace's Bunting, as you know. And,  , I suspect they're going to be split at some point because the call of Lydie is quite noticeably different to  The other races.

, it's more buzzy. So this, this is a typical Lidia buzzy call. , and Lidia is a pretty abundant migrant through Beijing, , and winter visitor too.  Okay. The next one you have labeled winter throat. .  Play that first. 

That's sounds very distinctive also. Yeah, it, it's been really hard to, , differentiate what we call the winter thrushes. So that's Dusky Nauman  and Red Throat. Yeah, , the complex. Yeah,  it's interesting to hear that call. And last up for neg um, palaces of Rose Fi.  

Quite non, the script, that one. Yeah. It's kind of like a distant red wing.  Yeah, it reminds me a little bit of Hawfinch as well, but not quite as high, but um, yeah, Palace of Rosefinch is a winter visitor here, and this winter we've had  a decent number coming  into Beijing, and it was the first time that I'd recorded one at night, and  they're late migrants, they're sort of late, very late October, November they come through. 

Okay, now you've also sent some wonderful recordings, Teddy, , Diurnal recordings, I'll call them, from all over the place, some from Mongolia, some from around China, and we'll just run through them. I think there's seven or so recordings. The first one you've labeled, , Lingshan. Early, early morning in the meadows. 

, this is amazing, actually.  So, where is Lingshan exactly? So, Lingshan is Beijing's highest mountain. It's, , 2, 300 meters, , at the peak. And, , It is a fantastic birding site, , in summer , and winter, , in summer it has a lot of breeding birds like flycatchers  and thrushes and  cuckoos, you know, Himalayan cuckoo, uh, large hawk cuckoo, , we have a green backed flycatcher, zappies flycatcher, , lots of amazing stuff, and then in winter, , because  Just below the peak, there's a lot of seed buckthorn and, , those berries are a magnet for thrushes and waxwings and, uh, and other birds.

And it's, so the mountain itself is about a hundred kilometers west of central Beijing. So it's right on the boundary of Beijing municipality and Hebei province. , and it's probably my favorite Beijing site.  Okay. I'll play this first. I think it's wax wings and brushes on. It's labeled in January. So, I'd imagine these boards are feeding on berries.

Yeah. I'll play it now. 

And these are Bohemian waxwing, are they Tony? It's a mixed flock, actually, of Bohemian and Japanese. 

And the thrush species here, do you know what they are? They're predominantly red throated.  There may be  some Naumans in there, but predominantly red throated, yeah. 

That's a lovely recording.  The next recording you have here is labelled March 2018, and it's Pallas Goal. This is another fantastic recording. This,  This really got me when I played it first. It's amazing. I'll play it for you now. This is a Palace of Skull. And where was this recorded, Terry? It was recorded at Ching Hai Lake on the Tibet Plateau.

Okay.  Have a listen to this. It's amazing. 

So I think that you, the background is brown headed gaullers. That's right. Yes. Yeah, , they sound like they're constipated, don't they?  I was just about to say that, actually. It actually struck me as well when I was listening to it. It sounds like they need to go to the toilet,  rapidly.  Yeah, it's a brilliant song.

What have we got next? Yeah, it's fantastic.  The next one is also amazing. Bar Headed Goose, also 2019. I'll play it first and then we can  have a chat about it.  That was the same 

place, Ching Hai Lake. Was it? Yeah. So that's Barahataguse. Amazing noise as well. They sound like one of those, um, horns that you have on your bike, you know, so.  Yeah, yeah. Exactly.  . Yeah. Uh, next up is, , Gray's Grasshopper Warbler, and this is in Song, I presume. It's dated June, 2019, and where did you get this?

This is right, , in northern China, north, northern Inner Mongolia, close to the Russian border, sort of on the edge , of the taiga forest.  Okay, just north of that, or? In it, yeah, it's just on the border of the taiga forest, there's  some wet meadows,  And then it gradually turns into, , forest.

So it's  on, in that margin. They, they love the sort of thickets and, not the proper woodland, but the sort of wet thickets, , on the edge of the woodland.  Brilliant. So we play this now, it's Graze, Grasshopper, Warbler, and so on. 

Don't they're amazing sounds? Yeah, I, I love them. And , they often sing at night.  ,  So , when there's very little else  calling or singing,  and they're loud, my God, you can hear them from a long way away.  Okay. What do you use to record in general during the day?  What kind of gear? , these recordings were all with a Zoom, , H5 and a Rode microphone. 

Okay. Just a shotgun mic? Yeah, just a shotgun mic. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.  So we've just three recordings left, Harry. The next one is Swin Hose Rail, and this is also a fantastic recording. It's dated June as well. Yeah, same place. And is this at night? Yeah, this will be just after sunset. So they, they start calling just at sunset, and then they really get going sort of about an hour after sunset.

. Yeah, and I love this sound.  Yeah, we'll play it now for everybody listening. 

It's nothing like coming more than places.  Yeah, you can tell it's a rare thing.  Oh, absolutely. 

You must have been very close to this board, were you?  I reckon I was probably less than 10 meters away.  Um, they're so secretive, they swipe  like crazy, so they're really hard to see, but um,  but yeah.  Pretty loud. For the size of the bird, you know, it's a tiny little thing.  And, um, yeah, I love them. And the song was only first recorded a few years ago.

It was a guy, the Anna Bird Project, guys at Mravivovka in Russia, that first recorded the song. Before that it was unknown. It was just a few years after that, two or three years after that, that they were found at this place in Mongolia. And the cuckoo species in the background, is that just, 

is that oriental cuckoo? Yeah, common and oriental. Yeah.  Okay. Both singing. Yeah.  Yeah. Yeah.  And plenty of amphibians there as well, obviously. Yes. Now, the second last recording is, , Inner Mongolia. You have a label here. It's also recorded in June.  , we'll play it first and then maybe have a chat about it. 

It's about 1. 50. 

I'm completely out of my comfort zone with this.  , I'll give you a few species that are in there. So, there's Pallas's grotter, singing away. Yep. , there's the Swinhoe's rail is in the background. There's Jack's quail,  sort of squelchy  call.  Common crane. , there's the cuckoos, the common cuckoo and Himalayan cuckoo.

There's a David's bush warbler in there.  Sounds a bit like an insect, sort of, after it's all,  um,  And I think there's also, um, a shrank spitton.  Okay. So, yeah, quite a few. Mongolia must be quite an incredible place to record, is it? Or just generally birdwatch? Yeah, well, this is in Mongolia again, so this is, um,  It's one of my favourite places in China, in fact one of my favourite places in the world for sound.

It's, , the abundance of birds there is phenomenal. , you'll have a cacophony of cuckoos. Common cuckoos and oriental cuckoos, , just constant.  And then you'll have a whole multitude of other species. , Siberian ruby throat breeds there. , you've got the flycatchers. You've got, , needle tail. 

, Siberian thrush,  , eyebrow thrush, , Japanese quail, Swinhoe's rail, you've got Bambelly Crake, you've got Great Grey Owl, you've got Ural Owl, um, you've got Eastern Curlew. Um, it's  You can, you can, you can stop now, Terry.  Yeah, it is incredible,  um, especially, I mean, June is just  unbelievable. , mind blowing is mind blowing and it's and the great thing is, you know, there's a little town there.

It's an old logging town called work. She hand. And it's pretty easy to stay there. And then there's these old logging tracks that go into the forest. , within a few minutes, you're a long way from any human activity.  And so , it's a really nice place to record. And of course, the dawn chorus, , it's just  Yeah, incredible.

It just strikes me as one of the last great undisturbed wildernesses in the world, really. Yeah. Yeah, it sort of makes you think what Europe probably used to be like. , a long time ago, the abundance of cuckoos is the thing that just hits you when you get there. , you can have sort of half a dozen calling all around you, you know, easily.

, and, , yeah, it's just.  Yeah, really cool place. , and of course, , you get these little microhabitats where the habitat is subtly different to,  you know, a kilometre that way you go, and there's a whole  different suite of species.  Yeah. And , it's fascinating. You've got, yeah, you've got breeding, , black tailed goldwits there as well. 

Yeah. You've got, you must have the odd just freshwater lake and then maybe a small copse of woodland or , yeah, exactly. You have these wet meadows.  , some of which, like the Swinhoe's Rail, for example, loves these wet meadows where the water's  sort of 20 centimetres or so deep with, with grass, , a bit higher than that.

And, , they, that's the habitat they love. But then sort of slightly drier habitat, which has  wet patches with tufts of grass and a few little shrubs, that's Bambelly Crake habitat.  Yeah, and then you get a little bit drier with more scrub, , and then you get start getting species like Ruby Throat and Bush Warblers, Chinese Bush Warbler also, and the Greys, and things.

Every little niche, niche of habitat is taken up and used. Yeah, it's pretty much, yeah, it's a wonderful place to spend time.  So, I've kept it a secret up to now, but now the secret's out. I would say maybe someday Terry, maybe. We'll see. I've actually, I've kept this recording to last because I think it's absolutely such a beautiful sound, very mournful kind of sound and that's the sound of White's Thrush.

So, this is recorded in May 2021 and where was this recorded? This was at Ling Shan. So, in Beijing. Beijing's highest mountain, yeah, in the woodland. It's a wooded mountain there. Yeah.  It's such an incredible sound. I'll just play this quickly. 

This is a great sound, isn't it? It's incredible. This, this bird woke me up. At 2 a. m.  I heard this sort of  whistling and I sort of got up and opened the door and I could hear it a bit better. It was clearly not far away. And it was still not another sound.    That comes across very well in the recording.

Just beautiful, yeah. It's one of the It's really haunting, isn't it? Yeah, it's such a nice sound. I went through your recordings when you sent them and I thought, I'll leave that for last. That's absolutely superb. Such a nice sound. And like I say, absolutely nothing going on in the background. It's so quiet.

It's lovely. Yeah, and it's not an easy bird to record in Beijing, so they don't We, we think they don't breed in Beijing,  maybe occasionally they do on the mountains.  But it's pretty rare to hear them,  in Beijing. So I was really, really lucky, , to be there,  when this bird was singing.

 And it sang for, I guess, an hour or so, you know, between about 2 and 3 a. m. And then I heard it briefly early morning about 4. 35 and then nothing.  Nothing else. Well, I'm glad you were there to record it. It's fantastic.  And I hope everybody's enjoyed it out there in the list goes. And that's about it, Terry.

I just want to thank you very, very much for coming on and being good enough to share these recordings. , it's been fantastic to talk to you and once again, amazing set of recordings. Well, thank you so much. Yeah, I mean, , it's a pleasure to be, , invited and to  meet you, albeit virtually for the first time.

 I think, , sounds, sound recordings, you know, is, it's something that came to me relatively late in my birding life, you know, I was certainly quite visually focused when I was, uh, you know, for many years, , but it's such a rewarding,   hobby to, to start focusing on, on sounds, , and it's, it just opened up a whole new dimension of, of, yeah. 

You touched on it earlier now that the kind of predominance of cameras in the boarding scene Well, I do hope in the future that more people will take up sound recording, you know for every species that's out there There's probably  Thousands of photographs but actually I think sound recording is one of those areas where you can really  make a dent in the Science  and learn quite a lot Absolutely, and I think one of the things that's really hit me  Is, , we sort of have these, , standard calls, you know, and songs for, for species.

But actually, when you spend time with them, the variety  of calls that they have and the repertoire that they have, , is way beyond what the textbooks will tell you.  Yeah, absolutely.  The more, the more you dig, the more you find it. It's quite incredible. Yeah, absolutely. And I think, as you say, you know, it's a field where I think a lot of people can make big contributions, you know. 

To our knowledge, because the number of recordings for a lot of species, you know, is really low. And I think particularly in places like East Asia, you know, there's, we've got a nice little group now of young people doing sound recordings in Beijing. , and they're sort of starting to travel around China, , and get recordings of some really, some species that have barely been recorded before.

So that's really encouraging to see. So long may that continue. Yeah.  And again, just anybody's out there listening, they're living in a big urban centre. They shouldn't be put off by recording at night because it's quite eye opening what goes over your head at night.  And even in the middle of cities, it can be quite amazing.

Absolutely. Yes.  That's a good  message to end on.  Okay. Once again, Terry, thank you , very much.  I'm sure I'll be contacting you soon with more mysteries from our knock knick. So please feel free. Always delighted to get a few of those. It's been great. Thanks once again. Okay. Thanks Alan. Cheers.

 So that was an amazing interview with Terry Townsend and honestly I just wanted to jump on a plane and go to the far east  After having a chat with him and listening to some of those , wonderful recordings and in actual fact I overlooked to play one recording during that interview and that is of Far Eastern Curlew.

So I thought I'd just play it for you now. This is another wonderful recording by Terry Townsend of Far Eastern Curlew  in Mongolia. Have a listen folks. 

  

 

So there you go folks that was a wonderful interview with Terry Townsend  And once again, I'd just like to thank Terry for coming onto the podcast and sharing some wonderful recordings with us here at Wild Bird Acoustics. Now that's about it folks.

I do have a little bit to learn about interviewing guests. It was the first time I've ever interviewed anybody here at the podcast and I learned quite a lot. . I actually had my microphone a little bit too high in volume and had to do quite a bit of editing.

 I think it's worked out okaY.  

So I hope you enjoyed that interview, folks. It was wonderful to talk to Terry.  And I have to say it really fired my imagination and wouldn't it be wonderful to get over to Asia and do a little bit of sound recording. It sounds absolutely wonderful. 

 Now all that remains is for me to thank you, the listeners, for tuning in once again to Wild Bird Acoustics. I really do hope. 

Now, once again, all that remains is for me to thank you, the listeners, for tuning in to us here at Wild Bird Acoustics. I hope you have enjoyed this, the first ever interview on the podcast, and we'll see you again next time. 

 So that brings us to the end of another episode of Wild Bird Acoustics, and I hope you've enjoyed it. As always, you can find us on YouTube by simply searching for Wild Bird Acoustics. We do have a mailing list also, and if you want to be part of that, folks, you can drop us an email at wildbirdacoustics at gmail.

com.  Now, all feedback is greatly received here at the podcast, and if you'd like the right review of the podcast, you can do so at the Buzzsprout header page. In addition, if you'd like to make a small financial donation to the podcast, you can do so using the buy me a coffee button, and you'll find that also on the Buzzsprout header page. 

We'll be back in a couple of weeks with more from Wild Bird Acoustics. Until then, take it easy folks. And as always, don't be afraid to get out into the field and relax and just listen to the wildlife out there. Maybe even do a little bit of field recording of your own.  We'll talk to you soon folks. Take it easy.

That's all from Wild Bird Acoustics.